Tandoori Tatanka

About ice on the north pole

• pmark: if temperatures aren't increasing, why is it melting?
• acampos: that seems like such an absolute question. I would say it's fluctuating as its always done
• pmark: http://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/index.html
• pmark: so then we just didn't have data before?
• acampos: well what exactly on this page do you want me to respond to?
• pmark: http://nsidc.org/data/seaice_index/images/daily_images/N_timeseries.png
• pmark: I'm just trying to figure it out
• acampos: there have been found wooly mammoths frozen intact in Siberia I believe, with tropical vegetation in their mouths which doesn't grow there at the present day
• acampos: it has been both warmer and colder in the past than it is now
• acampos: if you looked at a graph of temperatures over the last 5000 years, could you pick out the "ideal" climate for Earth for which all others were worrisome?
• pmark: santa barbara
• acampos: right, everybody else is screwed
• pmark: well let's talk about something that matters
• acampos: ok. This data on this graph goes back to 1979
• acampos: we have been in one of the most active solar cycles on record up until a year or so ago
• acampos: so I, of course, don't have any issue with saying that temperatures were going up recently, they clearly were
• acampos: but I believe some of the latest data shows it coming back in equal measure
• pmark: Re: CO2 and other emissions directly from human activity, what if governments are able to curtail emissions?
• acampos: I think it's skipping questions
• acampos: first of all, the Kyoto Protocol is a disaster
• pmark: your hair is a disaster
• ...
• acampos: http://www.friendsofscience.org/index.php?id=192
• acampos: The current (March 2008) global sea ice area is about 1,000,000 square kilometers greater than the 1979 to 2000 monthly average.
• acampos: they have an interesting video
• acampos: better than the other one I think
• acampos: http://www.friendsofscience.org/index.php?id=158
• pmark:  if we don't fight the weather in the north pole, we'll be fighting it right here at home
• acampos: now let me be clear. I'm not saying don't be environmentally responsible. But let's not be hyperbolic
• pmark: "Although there is more ice than this time last year, the average decline rate through the month of April was 6,000 square kilometers per day (2,300 thousand square miles per day) faster than last April."
• pmark: i win
• pmark: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jUxQni-gSnk
• acampos: ok fine
• acampos: well I still say there's been more and less ice in the past
• acampos: it's been both warmer and colder in the past
• acampos: and it will be the same in the future
• acampos: I can give you my non-scientific but psychological point of view
• acampos: it's a function of fanatical sectarianism to be looking forward to a horrible end to the earth, unless everyone comes to your point of view
• acampos: the world will end badly if we're not all christians
• acampos: muslims
• acampos: insert your social group here
• acampos: anyways, I'm all for honoring Father and Mother
• acampos: but it should be based on reality
• acampos: and I'm not convinced of ACCC
• pmark: IPCC?
• acampos: I meant anthropogenic catastrophic climate change